April 2006
For more pictures and information see the Hungarian Marked Izhevsk M44 page.
Appraisers:  Ron W, SlimTim, Springbank, DudleyDR/NotPC, Radom, finnmn/ragtop88, Gunmaker, Marcus, Alsky

I have been collecting for over 6 years.  I collect Russian/Soviet guns, specializing in Mosin Nagants and M1895 Nagant revolvers.   I live near Dallas.

This is a neat gun.  Not only that it is mixed Russian/Hungarian, but the unique mark makes it something I would want.

Positives:
All stamped matching.  From the pictures I can't see any grind marks so probably original metal.
The Kossuth marking is a big plus.  I have never seen it before and it gives this gun a unique history.  If it could be positively linked to the Hungarian Revolution it would add a lot to the price.  As is, it adds some, but not a huge dollar amount.
A small plus is that the serial number is a multiple of 100.  Not much added value, just cool.

Negatives:
Normally the Hungarian stock and butt stock marking would detract from the price as those do not seem to be original.  On this gun I don't think it detracts much.
The stock looks a little beat up, but nothing more than honest use.  I would not reduce the price because of it.

I would pay about $200 for this gun.  Mostly I would be buying for the Kossuth mark.  If it could be reasonably proved the mark was associated with the Hungarian Revolution then the price would go up to $350.
If I owned it I would ask $250 for it or if the marking was shown to be Hungarian Revolution I would ask $450.

I've been collecting rifles in the southeastern US for about 6 years now.  I'm more interested in Enfields and South American Mausers than I am the Mosin Nagant rifles, but strangely there are as many Finn Mosins in my collection as there are Enfields, or close to it.  Finn Mosins imported in the last 10-15 years show up regularly at gun shows and pawn shops in my area, and I have a hard time passing up the nicer or more difficult to find Finns.

This month's Mosin-Nagant is one that is likely to only be desired by the advanced collector in my opinion.  While I find it curious that an M44 of Soviet manufacture might have Hungarian parts that match the original Izhevsk serial number, my curiosity isn't raised to the point that I would seriously pursue this carbine.

The fact that an Izhevsk rifle has stamped matching parts that are Hungarian marked would be the predominant selling point of this carbine.  This same fact might be used by the disinterested collector to argue that it's a mix-master.   Ergo, the strong point and weak point of this month's examination are the same.

While distributors have sold M44 carbines in the $50-$60 range in recent past, I figure any matching carbine is worth a minimum of $75.  That would be my maximum buying price.  I'd sell it for $100, were it mine.

I've been collecting rifles and handguns for over 20 years, in California, New England, and now the South East.  I've been collecting Mosins for about 6 years or so, and if I have to call a particular rifle my favorite, it would be the M39.

This one is difficult.  Any other similar rifle, without the crest, would be worth under $100.  The addition of the crest, and the other Hungarian parts, makes it rare, perhaps unique.  It's difficult to set a price when there is no market.  It then comes down to how desirable is the rifle, and how much a collector is willing to pay for it.  To a collector of rare marks, it might be worth a lot.   To a collector with connections to or interest in the Hungarian revolution, it would be worth a lot.  I don't really have any idea of the size of that market, especially as far as the interest in Hungarian history.  I have a passing interest in rare and odd markings, and no personal interest in the revolution.  To me it would be a neat addition to my collection, and would be worth something in the range of the other M44 rare types like 1943, Tulas, or hex receivers.  As far as a selling price, that is even harder.  I think in the right auction with interested collectors, this rifle might bring a bundle.

I would pay $250 for the rifle, and ask $500, but it could double that in an auction with the crazy prices these days.

Positive features of this rifle:

I like this rifle.  It is an "oddball" and would definitely fit in my collection.  The Kossuth Coat of arms stamp makes this carbine rather unique and rare IMO.  Who knows how few were so marked and how many may still exist.  Its crested property mark indicates to me that it was likely appropriated or "liberated" for the use of the anti-Communist freedom fighters in the 1956 Hungarian revolution.  That they would even have a stamp for their rifles tells me that the movement was more detailed and ingrained than I had imagined.

Also, the anti-Communists must have had some kind of arsenal facility capable of refurbishing weapons.  The Hungarian made stock and buttplate with its apparent Hungarian-applied matching serial number indicate this to me.  That the carbine still displays two crests of opposing ideologies is also interesting to me.  It definitely was "there" and is a piece of history.

Very good overall condition.

Small import mark on the barrel.

Negative features of the rifle:

None.  The bore condition is consistent with the age and reasonable use/care of the carbine and would not be a negative.

Because this carbine is unusually marked and likely not in any "blue book", I would place a premium on it of from two to three times the normal going rate of a Hungarian M44 or a Russian M44 in comparable condition, approximately $150.00 to $225.00.   So I would pay as much as the $225.00 amount for this carbine.  (Especially if the cleaning rod is marked "02".)  I would pay that as it may be nearly impossible to find another.  It may have particular appeal to someone from Hungary associated with or connected to the Hungarian freedom movement of that era.

As I collect this type of weapon, I would not anticipate selling it.

I'm Steven "Radom" Henderson.  I've been collecting military firearms in general since the mid 1980s and everything Mosin Nagant for about nine years based in central Oklahoma.  Longtime proud member of Gunboards Collectors Forum.

What an interesting carbine!  The dual heritage doesn't seem really outlandish or impossible, but is unique in my experience.  A boat load of them could show up any day, but maybe not, either.  Perhaps it is actually deserving of the term rare, time will tell.  I suppose there are several different possibilities as to how it came about, who could prove any of them?  It is just unusual enough to drive me nuts!   It is in pretty good shape.  Although probably not original matching (but then, maybe it is?), it appears nothing like the usual Russian rearsenalled M44, the serial numbers matching is a big thing to me.  Nothing for me to call a negative point.  I'd give as little as possible, but up to $300 for this carbine.  If I was selling it, no way I'd accept a loss, $300.

I have been collecting for 3 years in the Southeast and concentrate on Finnish Mosin Nagants with an attempt to focus on Civil Guard rifles.

Although I present positives and negatives below I would not associate a specific value to any of them, I would use them as an overall way to evaluate the complete rifle.

The positive features of this rifle are:  Stamped matching of all parts and the Hungarian crest that has been added.  Overall very good condition of the rifle.  From my limited experience with Hungarian marked rifles, it is less common to find them in this condition with all stamped matching parts as well.

The negative features of this rifle are:  It's not Finn?

This rifle does not fit my collection as I typically focus on the Finns, however, as a Mosin collector I would consider buying it for the unique features mentioned and the overall condition of the rifle, not recently rearsenalled looking, but very good with stamped matching parts.

I would pay $125.00 for this rifle.

I would ask $150.00 for this rifle.

I would place a high, medium, low fair market value on this rifle of $75, $125, $175.  (Auction prices not reflected)

I've been collecting Finn rifles exclusively since 1999.  I collect in the Midwest.

This is way out side of my collecting area, and I know absolutely nothing about these guns what so ever.  I'm guessing the fact that it is all matching is a positive, but beyond that I don't have a clue.  I doubt I would even pick the gun up off a gunshow table to look at it, so probably wouldn't buy it even if it were for sale for $25.  If I ended up owning it I would gladly trade it for a Finn marked M91/30 in any condition.

Background:  My name is Marcus von Weigert, and I go by "Marcus" on Tuco's Gunboards, Parallax Bill's forums, and Culver's Shooting Page.  I live in Southern California; formerly in Orange County but since 1999 in Southwest Riverside County.  Nice Mosins, especially early rifles and Finns, are pretty scarce here but do turn up once in a while.  I have been collecting firearms, edged weapons, and military memorabilia for close to 40 years.  My introduction to Mosin-Nagant rifles came with the war trophy Viet Nam War bring-back M44 and Type 53 carbines I purchased from  veterans of that war in the early to mid 1970s.  For the past 10 years Mosins have been one of my major interests, particularly the dragoon and early 91/30 models, and the various Mosin snipers which are currently the main focus of my collecting.

While I'm not a real big fan of M44's, I do own a laminated stock '44 Tula, 2 laminated stock '44 Izhevsk (one a documented Viet Nam bringback), a '54 Polish, and am in the process of selling my Hungarian and  Romanian.  I used to own a lot more, but the regular, standard carbines, especially post-war Soviet, just don't interest me  that much.    However, this one is rather unique and would be welcomed in my collection.

The main thing that makes this rifle desirable and interesting is of course the Hungarian crest stamped on the barrel shank.  This "Kossuth" coat of arms is a variation of the Hungarian national emblem that was used before the post-war Communist takeover and after the Magyars tossed the butchers Karl, Vladimir, and Joe's screwball socialist economics and political system into the trashcan of history when the Soviet Union fell apart and Hungary regained its freedom.

This variation of the Hungarian heraldic emblem does not have the traditional Hungarian "Crown of St. Stephan" surmounting the shield.  This emblem was used during the short-lived Hungarian revolution against the Austro-Hungarian Habsburg empire in 1849 (all Europe blazed with revolutionary fire in this year, and all of these rebellions were successfully crushed in short order), and was also the emblem of the patriots fighting the Soviet invaders in the 1950's.  This might help identify this carbine as one used by the brave freedom fighters who resisted a form of terrorism worse than any other Europe has known, and who were betrayed and left swinging in the breeze by the same Western powers who handed Hungary over to the butcher Stalin at the end of WW2.  The history of both of these shameful incidents makes interesting reading, but we have neither the time or space to go into it now.  However, some rather limited research I have attempted also indicates that this emblem might have been used for a short time after WW2, between the period of the German withdrawal and Soviet invasion, and the overthrow of the Hungarian republic immediately post-war by Soviet led Hungarian Bolsheviks.  So it is also possible that this emblem indicates this rifle as property of the doomed post-war democratically elected Hungarian government.

Did this rifle originally come to Hungary in the final days of WW2 when the hoards of Soviet rape, robbery, and murder squads savaged the land as they did in most other nations they "liberated"?  Was the crest stamped on the rifle immediately after the war, or in the 1950's?  More research needs to be done on this, but either way this historic little carbine is quite different than the mundane piles of other Soviet M44's that one sees.

The other interesting features of the rifle are it's Hungarian stock, with it's matching serial numbered (less Cyrillic prefix) Hungarian made buttplate.  The buttplate doesn't appear to be a used one that was renumbered, while the bolt (with it's Cyrillic prefix) does appear to have been renumbered with the same dies used to number the buttplate.  I don't find anything unusual about the carbine retaining it's original Soviet barrel bands, as these are about impossible to remove without damaging the bands or removing the entire front sight/bayonet lug assembly, which is no easy task.

Without the Hungarian crest on the barrel shank, it would be easy to assume that this is just another one of the mixmaster M44 "parts guns" that were imported from Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and Albania several years ago.   In this instance, the matching numbers to the mixed parts would give it a little more value than the standard $50 Soviet M44's - perhaps $100.  However, the Hungarian crest is the real gem here.  Soviet M44's  with East German and Yugoslavian markings are known, and while not exactly common, are encountered much more often than something like this, which is  pretty much at present a "one of a kind" item.  I myself would value this carbine at around $200, and if it's potential Hungarian Freedom Fighter history could be better verified, would add a hundred or so to that value.  I feel that it is a pretty rare piece and based on this rarity should be worth more, but  there are also many other scarce and historically significant Mosins that are at present underappreciated and undervalued also.

I have been shooting & collecting firearms for over "40" years in Central Pa and have concentrated exclusively on "Finnish Firearms " for the last 6 years.    Most all of my Finnish collection has come to me from contacts on the internet.

About the only M44 I would have interest in would be one of the very few [SA] stamped ones that were captured by the Finns in the Continuation War.  I would pass on this rifle at almost any price as it does not fit into my collection.  The little crest stamped over the chamber area would draw some interest to the piece I am sure.

I would say that the average price this piece would sell for to be in the area of about $125.